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My First Rebuttal

I had a conversation the other day with a fellow on twitter coming off of one of Ken Ham’s tweets.  There was a lot of back and forth and I attempted to understand his position.  I did employ some Street Epistemology in the conversation but I think that was done in vain.   I just didn’t want to boil over into a flame war.  That doesn’t do anything to further any conversation.  We somewhat ended the discussion with him asking if I was a naturalist.  I hadn’t heard the term before so I looked it up.  It essentially is the belief that there is nothing beyond the natural world and  everything can be explained with natural process.  I’m not a huge fan of labels (that is different than check boxes, I friggen love check boxes) but agreed with that assertion.  He then sent me this article talking about some things that naturalism can’t account for.    I will spend this post refuting it’s points.

The Mind

The first point this article makes points out that is that if there is no other plane than the natural then our minds (I’m assuming he means consienceness) are nothing other than a result of natural processes.  The implication being that we have no true “free will.”  My question is, so what?  We as a species are excellent input/output machines.  We’re also excellent at pattern recognition (even when there isn’t one there).    am looking to do some more research into the entire notion of free will and what possible implications there are to not having it.

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My First Rebuttal (Three M’s that naturalism CAN provide)

I had a conversation the other day with a fellow on twitter coming off of one of Ken Ham’s tweets.  There was a lot of back and forth and I attempted to understand his position.  I did employ some Street Epistemology in the conversation but I think that was done in vain.   I just didn’t want to boil over into a flame war.  That doesn’t do anything to further any conversation.  We somewhat ended the discussion with him asking if I was a naturalist.  I hadn’t heard the term before so I looked it up.  It essentially is the belief that there is nothing beyond the natural world and  everything can be explained with natural process.  I’m not a huge fan of labels (that is different than check boxes, I friggen love check boxes) but agreed with that assertion.  He then sent me this article talking about some things that naturalism can’t account for.    I will spend this post refuting it’s points.

The Mind

The first point this article makes points out that is that if there is no other plane than the natural then our minds (I’m assuming he means consciousnesses) are nothing other than a result of natural processes.  The implication being that we have no true “free will.”  My question is, so what?  We as a species are excellent input/output machines.  We’re also excellent at pattern recognition (even when there isn’t one there).   There are even denominations of Christianity that believe we have no free will (Calvinism to name one).  The fact that we can look at our selves introspectively can be easily explained by evolution.  Once we evolved to the point where we were no longer living from meal to meal our brains suddenly had all this free time.  It was freed up to do things like existential thinking.  I am looking to do some more research into the entire notion of free will and what possible implications there are to not having it.

Morality 

Next up is the topic of morality.  I sometimes wonder at the nature of “morality” or ethics.  I did take a class in college on the subject of ethics and found it fascinating.  One thing that I was never really convinced of was moral absolutes.  There is the old antic-dote about that goes something like this: You are in 1940’s Germany and are hiding a Jewish family in your house.  One day the SS shows up and asks you if you are harboring any Jews in your home.  Do you tell a lie and save the family or do you tell the truth and not lie.  It’s a pretty easy decision, you lie.  Now if you adhere to a strict rule of moral absolutes where no “sin” is greater than another then you have a pickle here.  You’d have to tell the truth and in turn an entire family dies.  YOU made that choice and would have to live with that the rest of your days.  That doesn’t seem very “moral” to me.

Meaning

The final point the argument presented is that of meaning.  Essentially that with out god our lives are nothing more than what we have here while we’re alive.  There’s no higher purpose to our existence.  I fail to see how a deity give our lives any deeper value than that of a life devoid of such a being.  Our life meaning is different for everyone.  We aren’t designed to worship anything.  Our meaning is self-defined.  The author points to an example of a child thinking their meaning is to play video games all day.  OK, what’s the problem.  If this kid can grow up and support himself on playing video games more power to him (there is some serious money in that industry).  If not, they will have to do what we all do and find a job they can tolerate to support that which he finds fulfilling (video games).  Granted there are exceptions to this the biggest being if you find your meaning by infringing on someone else’s life (such as murder, rape, and the like).

Conclusion

As I stated before I was pointed to this article from a Twitter user and promised I would give my rebuttal.  I don’t believe that anything else other than the natural order of things is needed to explain us.  We aren’t special.  We are just another animal on this planet that happens to have a higher intellect.  Our ability to self-reflect, make moral decisions, and find fulfillment can all be explained by our evolutionary history.  I now had the difficult task of finding that twitter string and sharing this article with that user…whose name has completely escaped me.

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Great Article from Graceful Atheist!

How to deconvert in 10 easy steps: The stages of deconversion.

via Deconversion How To — Graceful Atheist

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Free Will?

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyac3meJml8&w=560&h=315]

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The God Delusion

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I went to the library for the first time in a long time this weekend.  While there I found the “required atheist reading” and decided to pick it up.  I haven’t read a book for pleasure since probably high school.  I’ve been in and out of college for the last few years so it’s not like I haven’t read, just not for leisure.

I picked up the book and it was a bit daunting.  It’s really big. Like way bigger than anything I’ve read in a long time.  But I was up for the challenge.  I’m currently on Chapter 3 and I find myself having a hard time putting it down.  I don’t read at an amazing speed but I’m doing about 40 pages a night.  It’s been amazing.

I plan to do a full review once I finish the book but I very much appreciate how it is laid out so far.  Definitions followed by what he is defining as the hypothesis, the arguments for (which I’ve come across previously in my own research, mainly thanks to The Atheist Experience).

I think I did start reading this once as a believer,  I wonder if it would have changed my point of view then had I finished it…

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Sorry

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I know it’s been a while since I’ve last written.  I do plan on getting back into the habit but life has been a bit hectic lately.  I’m back on my anti-depressant which helps with the day to day however one unfortunate side effect of that is it calms the angry narrator in my head that needs to yell at the world.  It’s easier to be apathetic to things.  It’s easier to say “well it is what it is” and move on.  I’m hoping to be back in the full swing next week as well as going forward.

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Saturday shorts – Trolls

No not the internet ones the DreamWorks movie. So there is a line in that movie that the antagonist says “There’s only one way to be happy. MY WAY!” I reminds me of the christian god. The only way to have eternal happiness is to listen to every word he has to say.  The alternative is eternal suffering.  

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I don’t know

This is a phrase with which I’ve become more comfortable.  When I was a believer I thought I had a book with all the answers to everything.  That god had an explanation for the inner workings of the universe all the way down to my little life on a speck of dust in it. Any moral question, any cosmological question, any question about what I was supposed to do with my life, was written down for me.  Life was simpler then I suppose.  I didn’t have to do much thinking.

As I deconverted I began to realize I don’t know everything anymore, at least in my own mind.  This was a scary realization at first.  How was I going to make decisions?  I used to pray before nearly every decision I made and wait for a response from god.  That obviously wasn’t going to work now.  I used to look through my Bible and search for answers, also won’t work any more.

I began to realize what I was really doing all that time was mulling over the options in that prayer time and settling on what I thought was the best direction to go.  So with that problem somewhat solved I still had some of those big questions up there that I didn’t know the answer to.  What happens when we die?  Where did the universe come from? How did life start? The more I thought about it the more comfortable with “I don’t know” as an answer.  Sure I can do some research and learn as much as I could about those things if they really bothered me.  The truth of the matter is they don’t.  I don’t have any real vested interest in those things.  They don’t have any bearing on my day to day life.  I don’t plan on becoming an expert in cosmology or biology, nor to I have a plan to be a professional debater on these topics, so I don’t know is a comfortable answer for now.

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Meaning

I remember as a Christian being told that “god has a meaning for your life”.  During my de-conversion I worried that life suddenly has no meaning.  If I wasn’t meant to serve the invisible sky daddy any more so I can have eternal bliss what was the point?  This sent me into quiet a bit of depression.  One of the many reasons I sought help.  I also began to read a lot of responses online regarding this.  The main thing I came to was that my life has the meaning I ascribe to it.  My life is important because it’s important to me and those who care about me.

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This premise was hard for me to swallow.  If you’ve ever suffered from depression you know that it can be hard to find yourself important to yourself let alone anyone else’s eyes.  So again I found my self struggling with a deeper depression.  I guess when I was a believer I always thought of my sky daddy caring about me even if no one else did.  That gave me some comfort.  Not having that security blanket anymore I felt exposed.  I say that in the past tense not because the feeling is gone but more as a fading feeling.

As far as what meaning I’ve ascribed to my life so far, well so far I have a very minimal description.  Provide a life of relative comfort for myself and my family, continue to expand my mind through learning, and spreading my thoughts.  I guess in a way that last one will make me somewhat immortal.  Sure only a handful of people will ever read this but these thoughts will live forever in the “mind” of the internet.

I’m still working through my depression and probably will for a long while.  But I’m actually working on it instead of “giving it to god” which is a phrase I never understood.  What are your thoughts on meaning for life?  How do you ascribe meaning to your life?

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Old habits die hard…

Sorry for my absence this week.  It’s been absolutely nuts ending with my daughter breaking her ankle. She’s fine other than she can’t walk on it being in a cast. This is the source of much frustration for her. But the event brought some things to mind. 

As we got ready to bring her to the hospital I remember praying that she’d be ok. As I’m thinking this to myself I wonder wait who am I praying to?  Strong force of habit. This has been the first big thing that has happened that was out of my control. I guess it makes sense that I would fall back on that even though there’s nothing there. 

It’s hard to get past 18 years of indoctrination. Being pumped full of lies and leanings on confirmation bias. I remember asking for nothing to be broken (it was). Back in my believing days I would have just thought “well I guess it’s just not part of God’s plan.” I was always told that god answers prayers in three ways, yes,no, and not yet. Looking at that logic now that literally covers all the bases.  God can’t lose with that premise. 

Truth is my daughter’s ankle was broken the moment she fell from that slide. No amount of praying to anything could have changed that. It makes more sense that the universe doesn’t care one way or another about anyone than pain being part of some kind of devine plan.